Hand Grenades
A bit ago, I conducted some tests comparing Vector & Uzi, finding that Uzi's lower initial impact damage was usually more than offset by her additional damage over time and she would often perform significantly better than Vector. Towards the start, I dismissed the thought of hand grenades with only a brief comment:
Molotovs tend to be recommended over hand grenades - they have similar damage multipliers, but the extra damage over time from a molotov is often preferred over the extra area from a hand grenade (2.5 vs 1.5 units).
But after further consideration, I'd like to revisit that statement. It's a fairly common bit of advice you'll see online, but that's not always the best source of information. Let's do some tests.
Dolls picked#
This is a bit constrained by what I have available/have data for, but there are two sets of reasonably close dolls I have to work with:
- Z-62 (molotov) vs PPS-43 (hand grenade)
- Z-62: 53 FP, 6x molotov (5.3x SL8), 12% FP/10% EVA tiles
- PPS-43: 58 FP, 6x hand grenade (5.1x SL8), 12% FP tiles
- KLIN (molotov) vs PP-19 (hand grenade)
- KLIN: 50 FP, 6.5x molotov (5.8x SL8), 25% ROF tile
- PP-19: 51 FP, 6.5x hand grenade (5.5x SL8), 24% FP tile
All dolls are SL8, which unfortunately changes the relative multipliers a little.
3-star Testing#
From position 8, these dolls have effectively identical tiles. PPS-43 has a near 10% base FP advantage, so this may skew results slightly in favor of hand grenades.
To start, let's take a few zombie swarms of varying size from Farewell, Tallinn I - Combat EX II (Shattered Connexion). Between G11's tiles and the Airstrike fairy used here, Z-62 and PPS-43 are both getting an 89% net FP buff.
So far: Z-62's performance was equal or better than PPS-43's, often by a significant margin. Next, let's compare using a few SF enemies as Zombie hordes don't represent a super large percentage of content.
This time, there isn't much for performance differences. PPS-43 is possibly slightly faster in one fight, possibly slower in another. Damage taken and damage contributions are similar.
There's a pretty simple explanation - outside of Suee's Damage II talent, neither offtank are getting any relevant buffs. G41 and ART only buff the maintank, and P7's tiles are near-useless. Any differences in performance will be much harder to detect when the dolls in question are weak relative to the rest of the team.
Let's continue with the testing, taking a few semi-SWAP mobs from Isomer campaign. We're giving the offtanks a ~110% FP buff this time.
A.416 was a bit OP against the SF here (usually dealing ~50% of the damage), so this was cut short and only a few mobs were tested. It's hard to determine which grenade type is better when looking at mobs that are already dead.
Z-62 has a possible clear time advantage against the second group, and possibly a bit less damage taken against the first. There were also some pretty awful grenades thrown:
4-star Testing#
Statlines are closer here but tiles are a bit different - PP-19 gives FP, KLIN ROF. I'll try to pick dolls that can benefit similarly from either to keep the comparison as skill-focused as possible.
To start, I'll use the same zombie set as with the 3* SMGs. Ribeyrolles & G11 would have far too much ROF for KLIN to help, so I'll use a different echelon. KLIN & PP-19 get a bit more FP buffs here - with one stack of Fervor, they are at a 114% net FP buff.
As with the 3* set, the molotov (KLIN) looks strong. They were about equal for the smallest Zombie group, but PP-19 looked worse against the other two enemies by all three metrics.
Next, some SF groups taken from the later Singularity stages and the Strelet mob from earlier Theaters:
No fairy vs the SF, Artillery vs the Strelets. PP-19 looks substantially better against the Scout/Strikers, KLIN has a major lead against the Strelets, and they are otherwise about equal.
Modified 3-star Testing#
I took long enough to write this that PP-19's mod is now released, but I haven't yet convinced myself how these compare. Let's do some more tests with PPS-43 and Z-62, this time attempting to equalize their impact damage. With both at SL8, PPS has a bit more FP (35 vs 30) and a lower multiplier (5.1 vs 5.3). After adding partially leveled HP ammo, PPS is at (35+17)*5.1=266 average impact damage and Z-62 does (30+20)*5.3=265 impact damage, all before external buffs. That difference will not be even remotely detectable.
Even in the shortest fight where Z-62's molotov would have the least time to burn, PPS-43 performed equal-or-worse than Z-62. PPS seemed to deal more damage against the Brute/Vespid group, but clear time was no better and that team took more damage.
Conclusion#
Further testing and detailed video analysis would be helpful to better understand the impact molotovs and hand grenades have in specific fights. Based on my observations so far, I do not see a compelling use case for hand grenades, as molotovs seem to do as well or better in most situations. In table form, I'd mark it something like this (looking at each metric individually, which isn't a perfect method of analysis):
| Result | Count | Percent |
|---|---|---|
| Molotovs better | 24 | 42% |
| Hand grenades better | 5 | 9% |
| About equal | 28 | 49% |
| Total | 57 | 100% |
It's not a massive edge overall, but the difference seems consistent enough to argue against using hand grenades unless there are extenuating circumstances in a specific battle.
Other notes:
- PP-19 now has a mod. The findings here regarding hand grenades don't necessarily apply to her, as she gets cooler tiles and a second skill. You can see my full take on that here.
- While a 2.5-radius hand grenade covers 2.7x the area of a 1.5-radius molotov, enemies stop walking when they get in range and can bunch up in a line. If all enemies are in such a vertical line, it would only hit ~1.6x as many enemies in theory.
- If the enemies are moving, the burning area from a molotov could hit new enemies that walk into it, possibly including enemies that were outside the additional range of a hand grenade.
- Molotovs actually have a slight edge for impact damage - their DOT triggers immediately, so Vector's grenade would deal 7x+1x damage on impact. The 3- and 4-star SMGs tested hear have equal modifiers (SL10) before adding this damage, but PP-19 mod makes up for this a bit with a 7.5x skill multiplier.
More like this
Which to pick
Does it matter?